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Big night for conservative candidates

9 April 2013 RS 97 Comments

Chuck Keysor of The Elgin OCTAVE Chuck Keysor of The Elgin OCTAVE (Photo by The Elginite).

John Prigge has won reelection to the Elgin City Council, receiving the most votes cast in the contest. Richard Dunne has also been reelected, with the fewest votes of the four winners in the 4-year contest. Terry Gavin and Carol Rauschenberger have been newly elected to 4-year seats.

Long-time Councilman Bob Gilliam failed to achieve reelection, trailing Richard Dunne by less than a hundred 50 votes.

In the 2-year race Toby Shaw beat Craig Dresang, pulling in nearly twice as many votes.

The Shaw/Dresang race showed that conservative voters clearly outnumbered liberals in this election. Voter confusion probably led to the large number of votes cast for Carol Rauschenberger, a liberal member of the local Republican dynasty. She picked up liberal votes as well as the votes of less-informed conservatives who assumed that a Rauschenberger must be a Republican.

Taxpayer watchdog group Elgin OCTAVE put out “Stop the Rain Tax” signs and distributed literature on behalf of candidates opposed to a proposed “stormwater utility tax.” Three of those candidates won seats on the city council.

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97 Responses to “Big night for conservative candidates”

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  1. RS says:

    This was already said on Facebook but you know I can’t help repeating myself.

    If you’re a candidate in a city council election, it’s a good idea to complete a survey for The Elginite. The questions are always easy and open ended, so you get a chance to say what you want to say.

    It may just be coincidence but the four candidates who came in last in this election (Knight, McCue, Cuming, Richard) were the ones who did not complete surveys for The Elginite.

    I hope future candidates will keep that in mind.

    • bennie says:

      what future candidates need to recognize is the fact that the people do have a voice and we will continue tipping the scale of governance regarding the spending of taxpayer funds by our leaders. It is important that taxpayer funds are utilized in a transparent way with full taxpayer participation and oversight. In order to acheive this goal in favor of taxpayers/ citizen we demand a taxpayer friendly council providing leadership for the greater good of the citizens not the special interest groups. When our elected officials realize they no longer control the popoulis of this community then and only then will we be on the right track toward revitalizing and making this community the best it can be. We will no longer remain silent we will change the face of this city one city council seat at at a time. We are already looking to the next election there are some seats that Must be removed.
      Congratulations to the newely elected city candidates.

      • Ernie says:

        Don’t get too confident bennie. This election doesn’t mean squat when it comes to how residents feel about candidates. Prigge, the number one vote getter got less than 3000 votes out of a city of 110,000 people. Less than impressive.

        • One Vote says:

          That’s nonsense. Dave Kaptain was elected mayor on 3,500 votes.
          That’s how these April elections go.
          The Motor Voters stay home because you don’t have the money to go on TV and tell them someone is taking their free cheese.
          The people who cast votes yesterday sought out their registration at city hall or the library when they moved to town 30 years ago. They weren’t signed up by some paid registrar at the parade or at the DMV. THEY WENT OUT OF THEIR WAY to register. And they don’t stay home because it’s raining or windy.
          They get their candidate info at the coffee shop, beauty shop or barber shop.
          It was an older, wiser crowd than the voters in November.

        • paul says:

          Thank you for the morning laugh, ernie.

          When your candidates didn’t win (clearly), “election doesn’t mean squat”.

          The vote total is a matter of mathematics - the more candidates running the less votes each candidate gets.
          As evidence, the highest vote total went to Shaw - but there was only a choice of 2.

          And the meaning of the election is the change in the makeup of the council. Prigge won’t be the lone vote anymore against the Kaptain tax and spend occupy Elgin coalition.

        • bennie says:

          I wonder if you would be so pessimistic if your candidate(s) had won. It’s pretty grim to think that. it should not be an insult to give some credit to the voices of the voters. whether you like it or not the people are the ones who control the business of the city. The city council works for the people not the other way around I am sure you know that. Your dim view on the power of the people to change the face of the city council is not forward thinking. Stick around that can and should happen The era of holding on to old worn out baggage is gone as it should be hopefully you want a progressive city. To say :”This election doesn’t mean squat when it comes to how residents feel about candidates ” You are absolutely wrong, votes reflect how ppl feel about the candidates. People generally vote for candidates they believe in. I am not sure your wires aren’t crossed regarding the meaning of this election. Every election provides an opportunity for the citizens to speak with their votes regarding the health of the city and the effectiveness of the leaders and if that leadership is providing what the citizen taxpayers want. Take a chill pill and let the flow of the new council do it’s thing.
          after all I hope we are collectively looking for the same results which are better stewardship from our candidates for the greater good of all

  2. Ernie says:

    Yeah, with an 11% turnout in Kane County, this is the kind of result one can expect. The only people who voted were those freaked out enough by Prigge, Gavin and Shaw and Octave to go the polls. Sad. Prigge’s first place vote count 2,776, was less than the third place City Council vote getter (Powell’s) 2,971 in the last election. I see this less than the community embracing his / Octave’s pathetic pandering and more that people were too apathetic / uninterested to get themselves to the polls.

    • Chuck Keysor says:

      And two years from now Ernie, you will no doubt be trying to marginalize the victors and complaining of a voter turn out of only 10%.

      Maybe you could ask yourself how many people could be excited about going out to vote for people who have raised their taxes and tried to hide it? How excited could people be to go out and vote for more candidates who said nothing, and could very reasonably be expected to raise taxes yet again?


  3. Ernie says:

    If they were “so excited about going to the polls to vote out people who have raised their taxes” they sure didn’t act on it. Rich Dunne got re-elected. Gilliam came in a close 5th. You campaigned against both of them. Sorry Chuck, you are no king maker as much as you’d like to consider yourself.

    • Rosemarie Kahn says:


      It’s Rosemarie Kahn. Spell it right. This was my very first time running for any political office, and I had a respectable amount of votes for someone that DID NOT spend money on mailers, campaign managers or flyers that get put on doorsteps. I did not pay for anyone to knock on doors for me. I did not ask anyone for money, and I only purchased signs to be placed in yards. It was all I could personally afford.

      I went to all but one forum that I was asked to go to (I had a personal commitment that I couldn’t break). I answered questions that were sent to me from organizations that were interested in what I had to say. Interviewed with the newspaper and was happy to ‘make an appearance’ on the local radio station.

      ALL of the people that were running spent far more $$ campaigning than I did. Apparently, the people that heard me and liked what I had to say, and talked to others about me. Not because the Elgin OCTAVE ‘endorsed’ me.

      I take great pride in the trust that those 1,202 people put in me. I would like to thank each and every one of them. I don’t take for granted that people went out of their way to cast their votes. It was a great experience.

      I’m sorry that you seem so bitter about the process. Perhaps you would like to run in 2 years?

      • SIE says:

        I voted for you. If you or the other Octave endorsed candidate would have won instead of Dunne my taxes wouldn’t go up again.

        Even Rauschenberger winning is no sure thing. She could easily side with the majority.

    • RS says:

      I don’t believe OCTAVE endorsed any candidates. They provided a list of candidates who were opposed to the rain tax. There is a difference there. Jeff and Chuck have always emphasized in my conversations with them that OCTAVE will not endorse individual candidates.

      As for Chuck personally endorsing people, I know he did not want to dilute the value of his endorsements so he actually endorsed only a few people. And I think all of them won.

      • Chuck Keysor says:

        Thanks RS. You are correct. The Elgin OCTAVE did not endorse anyone.

        We were very concerned about the “Rain Tax” and chose to bring that issue to the attention of the voters. We also provided the names of all the candidates that stated on our candidate survey that they were opposed to the “Rain Tax”. We didn’t make anybody sign any pledges. We simply took their survey results as being sufficient. And when we listed the candidates that were opposed to the “Rain Tax”, we listed them in alphabetical order.

        However each member of the Elgin OCTAVE had the right to endorse any candidate of their choosing, as long as they made clear that was their personal endorsement.

        Also note, whatever I post here, is my personal view, and not necessarily the view of the Elgin OCTAVE. We are a group, and we don’t agree on everything, and we take votes when required to resolve differences. Thanks, Chuck

  4. Ernie says:

    And Cody Holt and Rosemary Khan, two other OCTAVE, endorsed candidates didn’t even come close. More evidence of OCTAVE’s ineffectiveness. The incumbents won except for Gilliam who was in the hospital for the last two weeks, didn’t show up for most of the forums and barely campaigned. And even he beat two of your endorsed candidates.

  5. Danise Habun says:

    Congratulations to the newly elected members of Elgin’s City Council! It will be interesting to see everyone in action going forward.

    Just one note, I don’t believe voters were confused when electing Carol Rauschenberger. She is, and will continue to be, an active member of the community. She has both civic and government experience. She ran a modest and positive campaign. She has brought new ventures to the City of Elgin, including the food co-op and the marvelous annual science fair that features some of the best and brightest students within our community. As I wrote earlier, it will be interesting to watch the Elgin City Council.

    • RS says:

      Yes, she seems like a great person. I did not mean to diminish her accomplishment but I do think that some voters made assumptions based on her name.

      • Danise Habun says:

        I don’t think you’re giving voters enough credit… unless you mean that the voters, when seeing her name, recognized a family legacy of public service.

  6. bw says:

    Congratulations to the newly elected members of Elgin’s City Council.

  7. SIE says:

    With these results the “tax and spenders” are still in a majority for at least two more years.

    As I previously said a lot of additional damage will be done in those two years including the “Rain Tax”, which is now a sure thing.

    There will be longer council meetings with a bit more arguing and Prigge and Gavin will get more screen time, but in the end the majority will still get its way. In fact the majority may be even more vindictive just to show they can. Bend over Elgin, here it comes.

    • paul says:

      Disagree, SIE.

      ““Rain Tax”, which is now a sure thing.”

      Kaptain won’t be re-elected in 2 years based on yesterday’s results,

      Maybe (probably) that doesn’t matter to Kaptain as long as he can jam through his liberal green socialist agenda despite being against the will of the people. But that would be even more reason to stop it NOW.

      • SIE says:

        Disagree? With what? The “Rain Tax” will come up for vote in the next few months. The council majority will pass it. That’s it.

        You think Kaptain will change his agenda based on yesterday’s results? Extremely doubtful. And even if he did what about the other majority council members? And Stegall? The real puppetmaster.

        Still disagree?

        • paul says:

          “Disagree? With what?”

          What part of my copy and paste did you not understand?
          “““Rain Tax”, which is now a sure thing.””

          Kaptain is one vote out of nine needed.

          5 of those 9 will be up for re-election 2 years from now.

          But then, as I’ve said before, the rain tax is NOT necessary to to pay for what the rain tax is for. They can just tack it on to your water bill. I’m not against the rain tax per se; I’m against the absurd excessive cost of what the rain tax is designed to pay for.
          That is what is disturbing about this rain tax debate - the expenditure itself is left out of the debate. It won’t make much difference to the average property owner whether the City tacks it on to your water bill or separates the cost out and bills you a water run off charge.
          And speaking of Stegall, “the puppetmaster”, never underestimate him! The rain tax idea is actually quite brilliant. Designed initially to obfuscate raising taxes instead it obfuscates the necessity of the expenditure itself.

          Kind of like the EBL tax. The city doesn’t need the EBL tax to fund business development. They could just tack it on as part of your property tax bill. I prefer businesses pay for business development.

          • SIE says:

            Let’s start over.

            I said the rain tax is a sure thing.

            You said you disagree.

            I reiterate why I think the Rain Tax will be voted on and passed.

            You go on some tangent about elections two years from now and the rain tax not being necessary.

            Both points are irrelevant and for the record I’m not saying the tax is necessary. What I’m saying is the council will vote on the Rain Tax and since those who favor it (including Kaptain) are still in the majority it will pass. Pretty simple.

          • paul says:

            Let’s not start over.

            I disagree with your claim the rain tax is a done deal.

            Pretty simple. I disagree. That you don’t like me disagreeing with you is irrelevent to me disagreeing with you.

            No what don’t you understand?

    • Chuck Keysor says:

      As a note, two years ago, I attended two of Dave Kaptain’s campaign meetings given for his supporters. He said he was not going to run for a second term. He said he wanted to get rid of Schock and make some changes with the council and City Hall, and then retire.

      I did mention that to City Manager Stegall last month, and he said he had not heard that Kaptain would not run for a second term.

      Of course whatever Kaptain said is not binding, and I don’t have a tape recording to prove that is what he said. Maybe he had some conditions on his statements.

      But if I am correct, that would explain why Dave Kaptain has a free hand to say what he thinks, and why he has indicated support for the “Rain Tax”. He doesn’t have to worry about being re-elected.


      • Gibster says:

        Good morning Chuck, is was great to see you last night! ;-)

        To clarify, in 2011 Kaptain said he was willing to risk his council seat to run for Mayor to increase transparency and several other issues that were pressing at the time. When accepting role of Mayor he said he was taking it one term at a time, to do the best he could in 4-years and let the people decide moving forward. The goal to get the community involved, informed and highlight the uniqueness of Elgin to those outside our city limits.

        In 2013, is certainly shows the community has been more involved in the council process, even if voter turn out was low. So thank you Chuck for your efforts to educate residents as well. we may not all agree, but we all have the best intentions to move Elgin forward for the better. ;-)

        - LF

        • Chuck Keysor says:

          Thanks Laurie Faith for your important and appreciated clarifications. It was good to see you too, even though we didn’t get to chat. I think I was just about to leave for the EPH when you arrived at Nick’s Pizza. Thanks, Chuck

    • Common Sense Clarence Hayward says:

      Congratulations to all all the winners, especially Toby Shaw, Councilman Prigge, and Terry Gavin, who are all opposed to the rain tax.

      Hopefully, the incumbents who will be up for reelection in two more years will think twice before trying to add any more taxes to the already fully tax burdened Elginites.

      Thank you to OCTAVE for keeping the community informed and all their work regarding this election.

      A special thanks to Chuck Keysor. Your tireless working for the interests of the Elgin taxpayers is appreciated.

      Thank you is simply not enough for Elgin Councilman Gilliam for 40 years of dedicated service to our community. Your wisdom will be missed on the council in many ways. I wish you the best in this next phase of your life’s journey.

      Thank you to all the voters who came out and made a difference for the Elgin taxpayers! Going forward the incumbents who have terms being up in two more years are put on notice to seriously think twice about what they vote for going forward if they want to be elected again at the polls in two more years.

  8. harmony says:


    Octave did a better job than the DH endorsements. Dune’s numbers are terrible compared to who endorsed him, fire union, plumbers union…

  9. RS says:



    Two precincts in Cook County were still not tallied until after 12:30 a.m. Wednesday.

    With those finally in, the combined totals for both counties had Prigge with 2,866 votes, Gavin with 2,477, Rauschenberger with 2,184, Dunne with 2,052 and Gilliam with 2,002.

  10. ElginSpirit says:

    April 9th 2013 Consolidated Election Results including all contest vote totals are posted #Elgin2013 #ElginGov


  11. Chuck Keysor says:

    Hello and thanks to everyone who put up the “Stop The Rain Tax” signs! Your support of this campaign is greatly appreciated! But the debate over the “Rain Tax” is far from over.

    Please bring in your “Stop The Rain Tax” signs and keep them safely in your house. We will collect any stray signs we find outside next weekend.

    But if you want to be prepared for the coming activities against the Rain Tax, you will need your signs again. Please stay tuned for further instructions!

    Thank you again for your help and support! Chuck

    PS: This is a link to another community’s Rain Tax experience. http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/04/10/Maryland-governor-taxes-rain

    • SIE says:

      I’d love to eat my words but I think it’s a safe prediction that the Rain Tax is a done deal. It will pass 6-3 or 5-4 when it is put up for vote later this year.

      Keep us informed of what other taxes the city will try to impose but I’m pretty the Rain Tax ship has sailed.

      • Chuck Keysor says:

        Hello SIE. You may be right. Maybe Paul is right. I don’t know, and at this point it isn’t an issue for me which of you is right.

        Instead, those of us opposed to the Rain Tax have to plan for all the possible contingencies. Without going into all of them, in the one possible event that the rain tax does get enacted, we will do our best to make sure that it will happen with the maximum amount of public attention. And we will have to make sure that it will leave an ugly scar in the memories of the voters that can be capitalized on in the 2015 election.

        So you may be right, you may be wrong. I am only concerned with preparing for any scenario.


      • bw says:

        SIE: I think you’re right. The Rain Tax should be to an up or down vote ASAP. Any issue that is hot as the Rain Tax needs to be decided by the council, not a low percent of the citie’s voters. This was not an election. It was a populairity contest. Friends, relatives, and political parties elected these people. The Township GOP election helped provide the turnout.

        • Chuck Keysor says:

          Hello bw. Actually, last October, I spoke to the council and asked them to take an up down vote on enacting a rain tax, before they voted to spend the $200,000 for the study. I asked, gee, what if you don’t want a rain tax, wouldn’t it have then been a waste of money to pay for a study? I was told, sorry, we have to have the study results before we can decide on this issue.

          So now you will have to wait for a vote until after the study is in this summer. And if you could get them to vote today, wouldn’t you be sorry to see that so much money had been wasted on a study that you will have proven they didn’t need????? Chuck

  12. bw says:

    Typical government; a study is needed for every project so they can hope to have a support group or company to blame as to why or why not the Tax is or is not necessary. If I remember right a study was mmade on the Rec Center before it was constructed. Now that it is a bad seed, everyone can point to the study as the reason for building the project. Studies are the proper way of running government before deciding an issue. You can be sure that the Rain Tax study will be in favor of passing the tax.

  13. Chuck Keysor says:

    bw, we agree!

    Another important part of the study though, is to provide cover for the candidates during the election that are likely to support the “Rain Tax”. Instead of saying they support it and getting in trouble during the election, or saying they oppose it but then vote for it and get in trouble after the election…. They simply say, gee, I don’t know where I stand on the issue, I have to wait until the study comes back. So they get a free pass and don’t have to take any stand. Funny how these studies don’t seem to get done until after the election……. Chuck

  14. SIE says:

    @Paul The way I see it, based on the council’s previous discussions about the Rain Tax, their voting history, and the new member’s campaign positions, this is how the vote will go.

    Dunne - Yes
    Moeller - Yes
    Powell - Yes
    Steffen - Yes
    Kaptain Yes
    Gavin - No
    Prigge - No
    Shaw - No
    Rauschenberger - Unknown

    So as I’ve said it will pass 6-3 or 5-4.

    Since you keeps saying you feel the Rain Tax will not pass that would mean at least one and possilby two of my presumed yes votes will vote no. I hope I can come back to say you were right. But I doubt it.

    • paul says:

      “Since you keeps saying you feel the Rain Tax will not pass”

      I have NEVER EVER ANYWHERE said the rain tax won’t pass. I’m just not the fatalist, pessimistic, negative, dour, let’s lay down and die, whine cry and snivel type saying the rain tax is a done deal.
      I am very optimistic intelligence, reasoning, common sense, and decency will prevail.

      Clearly, Gavin, Prigge, Shaw and Keysor don’t see the rain tax as a done deal.

      • SIE says:

        I state how the council will vote on this tax and you resort to name calling, pretty classy.

        Apparently you are living in a dream world where none of the councils actions and statements regarding this tax mean anything.

        You should get a clue and also learn how to count to five.

        • RS says:

          It is best to let Paul say what he wants to say and not engage in debate with him. Most people find out the hard way 3 comments later or whatever where they’re being called a Nazi.

          I hope any newbs out there will heed the warning.

  15. bw says:

    SIE: I think you have it right. I would expect the council vote to come out this way on a lot of votes. Carol Rauschenberger comes from a family of GOP conservatives as Her mother was a school board member for a number of years, her father was a long time County GOP Chairman and a member of the county board, her uncle was a former Elgin Mayor, and her brother a former GOP State Senator. Four years ago she was the first Dem elected as a Township Board member. However, I don’t remember reading in the news that she did much to improve the township government. Her vote on the council will depend on what her future goals in politics are. I would guess she will vote with the conservative group most of the time. Seeing she votes Democrat and her whole family Republican maybe she will have a mind of her own. Only time will tell.

  16. Cruex says:

    If the election was a popularity contest Esterino would have been first. Thank God people saw the hollowness of his campaign. Dresang would have done much better if it was a popularity contest, too. I’m told he took one of the bigest beatings of any city candidate in recent memory.

  17. bw says:

    Those who won were the most popular. More freinds and relatives and more GOP votes because of the township election. If it was just a city election the results would have been different. No one candidate ran away with the election.

    • Common Sense Clarence Hayward says:

      I would consider Toby Shaw in the two year election running away with his election over his competitor. Gathering close to twice the votes over his competitor mathematically sounds like Toby was running at a very fast pace or the competitor was perhaps walking while Toby was running.

      A big thank you to all the voters who helped Toby and the other conservative candidates win.

      • bw says:

        Shaw did not have a record to defend. He did not have any strong opposition. He was elected on the coattails of several well known community leaders like those running for the 509 and U-46 school boards. Sixteen township candidates and 15 council candidates and the library board candidates. A lot of variables accounted for his victory election. In two short years we will see how well he will do. I have lived in Elgin over 75 years and I never heard of him until this election. I wish him well in his two year term.

  18. Terry Gavin says:

    I just want to take a moment to thank everybody who supported Councilman John Prigge, new Councilman Toby Shaw and myself former Councilman Gavin. Though we didn’t run as a slate our message was enough is enough with taking more taxes from the pockets of the citizen’s of Elgin.

    The voters of Elgin clearly elected us to stop this city council from enacting the “Rain Tax” and any of the other council members who didn’t get the message will have to answer to the voters in 2 years. We were clearly the top 3 vote getters because we spoke directly to what the taxpayers wanted which was stop taking more of our hard earned dollars.

    I look forward to working for the people of Elgin as their representative on the new city council!

    Thank you for this opportunity to serve again!

    • SIE says:

      Congratulations Terry, besides your stance on the Rain Tax and other similar issues it was good to see someone from Elgin’s Cook County side elected. Please keep us in mind when all the far west proposals come up. For every new gas station or park the far west gets, the east side should get similar considerations.

    • Joshua says:

      If you weren’t running as a slate then why put your names together on marketing materials and together in plastic bags on resident’s door handles. You are as misleading and dishonest as they come. Because you say the world is flat doesn’t make it true. By the way, I can’t tell you how many people have reported back who saw you punch a Courier reporter in the face at Prairie Rock during one of the last elections. You almost got arrested. Nice! This is not the kind of person I want in City Council. Angry. Hostile. Negative. We can do better. And, we will.

    • Joshua says:

      If you weren’t running as a slate then why put your names together on marketing materials and together in plastic bags on resident’s door handles. You are as misleading and dishonest as they come. Because you say the world is flat doesn’t make it true. By the way, I can’t tell you how many people have reported back who saw you punch a Courier reporter in the face at Prairie Rock during one of the last elections. You almost got arrested. Nice! This is not the kind of person I want in City Council. Angry. Hostile. Negative. We can do better. And, we will.

  19. Joshua says:

    Never mind “Stop the Rain Tax. “STOP THE LIES! There is no Boogieman! With intent, Elgin OCTAVE and the extremely biased Elginite, misrepresented Elgin’s City Council candidates prior to April’s election. This was a great disservice to the community.

    Instead of responsibly informing voters objectively with facts, they conjured up half-truths in a barrage of propaganda that was funded largely be Tea Party supporters. CITY COUNCIL RACES ARE MEANT TO BE NONPARTISAN, unless a group like OCTAVE hijacks them and deceptively turns them partisan, which they did. In an avalanche of communication the group repeatedly stated, “The best defense against this proposed Rain Tax is a good offense. The best way to fight is to elect those that are against the Rain Tax in the upcoming election on April 9th. Those opposed against the tax include: John Prigge, Terry Gavin Elgin, Rosemarie Kahn and Shaw.” They conveniently left out the names of the other candidates who were also opposed.

    Yet, the TRUTH is that the other candidates including Armstrong, Knight, Rauschenberger, McCue, Richard, Esterino, and Dresang have all been ON RECORD opposing the idea of a rain tax in the Daily Herald, in public forums and in other local media. I say “idea of” because it doesn’t actually exist. It’s a Boogieman. It hasn’t been raised, discussed, debated or voted on by City Council. However, it has been conjured up by extremists who are more interested in perceived power and self interests, than they are truth and responsible citizenship. People of Elgin need to wake up and go to legitimate sources of information like The Daily Herald, the Elgin Courier News, and forums hosted by the League of Women Voters and the neighborhood associations. These are all sources that had the other candidates on record as opposing this tax, yet OCTAVE purposely stated something different. What a profound injustice. Shame on Chuck K. and others who manipulated the truth for less than noble purposes. This is a statement about the character and integrity of some newly elected officials. It’s time for those of us who have been duped to stand up for accountability.

    • Chuck Keysor says:

      Joshua Kennedy-Smith…. thanks for posting. Sorry you have turned the efforts of a few concerned citizens into some right-wing conspiracy. And too bad you have turned your anger into bashing an open site that lets you, or anyone else who comes along, express their opinion in a fair and open forum.

      Read the old posts here. The Elgin OCTAVE statements of who opposed the Rain Tax had been based upon the surveys we got from the candidates. We simply provided the names of every candidate that told us they were opposed to the Rain Tax.

      A few days prior to the election, one candidate contacted us saying she opposed the rain tax. I looked on her website, and it didn’t say she opposed it, but was instead open to investigating it. Another candidate just days before the election told a citizen that he was opposed to the Rain Tax, yet I heard that candidate say at the LWV February forum that he supported the Rain Tax. He also said that Elginites were not over-taxed.

      If anyone was fooled, it may well have been you, fooled by the candidates who did not stand up against a new grab for money by the City. All those candidates seemed to adopt a strategy that they would simply say there is no rain tax, so how could I support something that doesn’t exist? So, I must be opposed to the rain tax. That was their basis for saying they didn’t support the “Rain Tax”.

      You are clearly not grounded in the facts when you say that the “Rain Tax” matter has not been discussed at council meetings. Prigge and Kaptain have openly argued about this. And Kaptain has openly opined on how the revenues might be spent, and if they should go into the general fund or into a dedicated fund. Based on your facebook bio, I can say I have never seen you at a City Council meeting, maybe you watched on-line. But in either event, you are flat out wrong.

      And you are also clearly not aware of the City’s 2012 and 2013 5 year financial plan, which shows the “Rain Tax” going into effect in 2014, and that those plans were voted on and approved by a majority of the City Council. So how is all of this talk of a “rain tax” some right-wing fabrication invented to torpedo the political rights of the liberal candidates?

      But you are perhaps accidentally right, there is no rain tax at this time. But that is how the political process works, the City proposes a new tax, then they commission a study (both of which are documented as already having been done. Then after the election, they get the study, and then enact the new tax. All done as far from the NEXT election as possible, to allow the voters a chance to forget the issue.

      History shows us that it is very hard to get rid of a tax after it is enacted, and that the best way to deal with it, is to try and get rid of it before it gets enacted. So, you are right, there is no rain tax, yet. We are fighting it at the best time, before it is enacted. That is how it works. That is not lying or twisting the truth. If you choose to look at this approach as lying, you are splitting hairs or simply venting your anger over being out maneuvered.

      You also claim to be upset that somehow or another we have turned the council election into a partisan race. I saw no donkeys or elephants on any signs and that was not a criteria for our promoting the candidates that opposed the rain tax. We never asked anyone’s party affiliation. And, if you really had a concern about this being a partisan race, I would suggest that you talk to Senator Mike Noland, who IS a democrat, and who did in fact send out an letter endorsing Dresang, Armstrong, Gilliam, Esterino and Dunne.

      The simple fact of the matter is, the Elgin OCTAVE is a tiny grass roots movement that doesn’t want our taxes to go up, when the City’s budget is at a record high level, and our taxes have gone up in the last two years, despite the claims that have been made by various candidates and members of City Staff.

      If you want to be mad at anyone, get mad at City Hall, and the council majority that raised taxes by $10million for FYI 2012 and then told the public over and over again that “We lowered your property taxes by $1million!” But they failed to mention the $10million in other increases. Those council members who raised our taxes, and approved the City spending money to send out literature that misrepresented the entire tax increase situation are: Anna Moeller, Tish Powell, Rich Dunne, Bob Gilliam, Dave Kaptain and John Steffen.

      Thanks, Chuck

  20. Tim Palmer says:

    Goodbye to the guy who took his job so lightly he thought he could move to Arizona and no one would notice. He got away with it for years so maybe he got the last laugh but not any more. He shouldn’t have raised my taxes and tell people we should be glad he did it.

    • Anonymous says:

      What a mean-spirited judgmental comment. Bob spends half the year in Arizona because he has severe asthma. And that’s exactly why he’s been in the hospital for over two weeks and couldn’t campaign. Strike a man while he’s sick and after he’s given 40 years of service. Now that says something about your character. Karma’s a b____!

      • Tim Palmer says:

        Half the year? I don’t think so, it’s more like 3 weeks out of every month in Arizona, at least that’s what his friends say. I will handle my karma for the truth. I hope he gets out of the hospital and goes home to Arizona for a good life.

  21. Joshua says:

    We will have to agree to disagree. I still feel that the OCTAVE backed platform for the candidates you supported was misleading and dishonest. The partisan support wasn’t made publicly obvious, but behind the veil it was clearly seen. I heard and saw too much of it from my Tea Party family and friends. For those of us who work in business and finance, we understand that tax diversification is smart. It will secure a more stable future. Property taxes went down and will continue to go down, while other fees will be added to offset the gap. I’m fascinated with your statement “Elgin OCTAVE is a tiny grass roots movement that doesn’t want our taxes to go up.” Who exactly should pay for the services you receive? That is like saying I want my house painted and my lawn mowed but I don’t want to pay for it. Amazing. The city’s expenditures have gone up because the cost of running any city or organization have gone up along with our population and geographic size. That’s why two new seats were added to the council. It’s like feeding a family of 8 instead of 6. Unfortunately, the teeny tiny segment of Elgin’s 110,000 residents who voted on this misguided issue do not represent the views of the majority. The results of this election have nothing to do with what most Elginites think or want. It is connected to extreme low voter turn-out combined with a well-organized platform of misinformation.

  22. Chuck Keysor says:

    Joshua, perhaps I am being baited, but your points remain largely if not entirely ungrounded in fact. Maybe you simply can’t accept the fact that there are people who do not like the government forever increasing how much money they take from the Citizens.

    a) You repeat the same deception repeated by the supporters of our liberal council. For example, and not surprisingly, you say that property taxes went down, while other fees will be added to offset the gap.

    IF you would simply look at the 2012 and 2013 budgets, you would see that we did not simply have the situation you and the other die-hard liberals keep trying to put over on the citizens of Elgin. For example, in 2012, by the City’s budget, property taxes went down by $1million. Other taxes and fees in the same year were increased $10million! That is NOT an even swap, it was a net $9million increase in the size of the tax burden placed upon the citizens of Elgin. Why won’t you admit that? And the situation continued up in the same direction in the same way in 2013’s budget, with the excess of revenues over expenditures increasing to $10million! My taxes and fees to the City went up a bit more than 12% last year compared to 2011.

    b) You correctly quoted me as saying I didn’t want my taxes to go up.

    Then you totally jump off into a logical black hole when you asked, “Who exactly should pay for the services you receive? That is like saying I want my house painted and my lawn mowed but I don’t want to pay for it. Amazing.”

    I didn’t say I want to pay zero taxes. I fully expect to pay for services I receive, and for services that I will never receive. But just don’t keep cranking up my taxes. That is a pretty simple and understandable position that I hold to.

    c)The size of the City and its population do not dictate a rise in taxes. With economies of scale, it is also a logical possibility that having a larger population can lower everyone’s personal tax burden, though that is not my issue. The things that drive up our taxes are the decisions our council makes on what to spend money on. For example, the City could decide to separate all of our sewers in 10 years, at the cost of $10million per year ($6million more per year than we are spending to work on sewers this year). That would raise our taxes. The City could for example decide to build a new cultural arts center, for $100million. That would raise our taxes. The city could decide to make State Street a tree lined boulevard and spend millions to do that. Or look at choices made in the last 10 years, deciding to build the Rec Centre, taking over the East Side Rec Center/God’s Gym, Artspace, Riverside Drive, brick pavers all around downtown, expanding our boundaries and installing infrastructure all the way out to Rt. 47, funding the Chicago Bandits, the Channing Street residential development, all expensive things that raise the need for more taxes. These were all optional things that drove up our taxes. A common sense council will hopefully not vote for such things in the future, and thus can keep our taxes from sky-rocketing as they have in fact done for the last 20 years.

    d) I can’t imagine what you are basing your claims on that “the voters do not represent the views of the majority”. You have nothing to prove this. You have not polled the city scientifically. Nor have I. But the election is the closest thing we have to a poll to sample the majority of our City. Because the voters don’t agree with you is not a factual basis from which you can assert that “The results of this election have nothing to do with what most Elginites think or want.”

    e) Maybe you should start a group with a catchy name like Citizens for Truth, and at the next City Council election tell everyone that you want to raise taxes to increase everyone’s quality of life. Tell them that no one wants lower taxes and that a bigger city demands higher taxes, tell them that you want a tax on rain because it is fair to charge people for using the City sewers. Tell them you want to further diversify our tax base by taxing the air (after all carbon emissions we citizens generate are ruining the planet, and we must all pay to fix that.) Tell the citizens that life will be wonderful with free plays and movies, because quality of life is everything. Tell them that you want to run a slate of Anna Moeller, Tish Powell and John Steffen. And while you are at it, maybe toss in Rich Dunne for Mayor. See how far that gets you.

    Speaking for myself, Chuck

    • Common Sense Clarence Hayward says:

      Well written Chuck!

      • Joshua says:

        WOW. You’re one angry man.

        • paul says:

          April 14, 2013 at 9:03 am
          “I thought this was a forum for conversation and debate.”<>April 14, 2013 at 8:59 am
          WOW. You’re one angry man.<<

          Classic liberal response: ‘Anything I say is “conversation and debate”. ANYONE who disagrees with me is “angry” “WOW” and thus not deemed engaged in “conversation and debate”‘.

          “candidates you supported was misleading and dishonest.”
          “saw too much of it from my Tea Party family and friends.”
          “Elgin’s 110,000 residents who voted on this misguided issue do not represent the views of the majority. ”

          You refuse to say how he was misleading and dishonest.
          You trash your own ‘family and friends’.
          And you dismiss the very legitimacy of democracy because you don’t like the results.

          AND that is the very essence of your conversation and debate!!!

          Thank you for the laugh.

  23. One Vote says:

    There is a poster here essentially complaining that his guys lost last Tuesday and blaming it on low voter turn-out.
    First, let me say that having these elections in April make it possible to manipulate the outcome.
    For example, the school board. U-46 has 3,900 employees. If the unions want to put in their candidate, a low turn-out bodes well for them. Get the word out to your members and you’ve got the membership votes and those of their families. You don’t have nearly as much influence in a November presidential election.
    As I posted before, die-hard voters will turn out when it’s windy and rainy. They give a damn about their community. The manipulations of Motor Voter, Voter ID laws, and Early Voting don’t have much impact on this group. They’ve never missed an election and don’t plan to.
    Sadly, Elgin doesn’t have nearly enough of these patriots.
    But on Tuesday they won the day.

  24. bw says:

    CK: Two things in life are certain; death and paying taxes. There is no way from getting away from either. You may no want all of those things you mention but you’re only one person living in a community of over 100,000 citizens. It just might be that 99,999 others want these things and more. They just might be willing to pay their fair share. Everyone don’t think like you. That is what makes this country great.

  25. Cruex says:

    I would not like to be Anna Moeller or John Steffen right now. They all openly campaigned against John Prigge and mildly campaigned for new Democrat Rich Dunne. I drove by their homes and saw the campaign signs. Dunne went from 1st to 4th barely beating a non-resident in Robert Gilliam. If there wasn’t an extra slot available Dunne would be out. Toby Shaw’s whipping of Craig Dresang was the final insult for liberals.

  26. Chuck Keysor for Council next time. We need Don Quixote. Ride on !

    • Anonymous says:

      great idea. let’s put another extremely negative person with no vision in office. hopefully he doesn’t have the same track record of drinking too much and punching reporters in the face. that quota has already been filled.

      • One Vote says:

        Let me translate for Anonymous.
        “extremely negative person” = anyone who challenges the tax and spend mentality of the council.
        “drinking too much and punching reporters in the face” = painting all political opponents with a broad brush.

  27. Cruex says:

    How shocking to see comments here griping that the voters elected 3 conservatives who pledged to stop a rain tax, reverse city taxes and hopefully give people more money in their pockets! I assume those crabbing about it are hands-out takers of the government teet. It must be easy to tell people to pay more when you are not one of the people that has to pay. The political futures of Powell, Steffen, Moeller and Kaptain looks very vulnerable and that’s good.

    • bw says:

      The political futures of Powell, Steffen, Moeller and Kaptain looks very vulnerable and that’s good.

      This is just your opinion. Each of these individuls have a record to run on and will continue building on their record for the next two years. Maybe the should consider not running because of the scare you are trying to portray to Elgin voters. They all have the best chance of winning because thet are strong candidates. I don’t think their as vulnerable as you think.

      • Sally Foster says:

        You also thought that Bob Gilliam would win and look where he is now. They are vulnerable and know it. I will add Dunne’s name to the list.

        Hopefully they will get on board because believe it or not this election sent a big message.

  28. Tim Palmer says:

    Someone took the Esterino sign out of the downtown tree before it was going to be given landmark status! Oh well, at least I have photos to cherish.

  29. bw says:


    because believe it or not this election sent a big message.

    This election did not send any more of a mmessage than the many, many other local, state or federal elections I lived through during the past 70 years in Elgin, Illinois or the United States. In two years people will forget all about this election. It will be a whole new election cycle. Who knows who will be able to seek an elected office in two years. none of us have a guarantee in this life. I expect to see some strong hispanic candidates next election. Other major issues will face Elgin in two years and every election thereafter.

    If Bob Gilliam had not been in the hospital or over two weeks, he would have won his seat back. It is hard to campaign from a hospital bed. Give him a break.

    • One Vote says:

      I disagree. Gilliam had turned sour in the past few years, snapping at regular citizens just because they disagreed with him. That show of arrogance turns people off.
      When he couldn’t defend his past actions he just got angry with his critics.
      And his long-distance governing meant he got his information from staff. Those rosy reports didn’t give Bob the true picture of dissatisfaction among voters. His mailers about how he was planning to “Continue to diversify city revenues” just poured salt in the wound.

  30. Sally Foster says:

    I will suggest that you watch closely. A clear conservative message rang the bell of the tax and spend city council whether you admit it to yourself or not. All those who want to join on the side of the tax payer’s are welcome.

    Also, please note that just because the election is over doesn’t mean that the conservative messages of smaller government, less spending and less regulations have stopped. I am confident of that fact.

    I am hopeful that the current council members who either squeaked by or who are up for re-election in two years have received this message. Get on board, its past their time to support and address their tax payer base and not the agenda of the few or the one.

    The vote clearly proves Bob’s 40 years on the city council had come to an end. I wish him success in his new ventures as well as good health to him and his family.

    Good luck to you.

  31. bw says:

    The word conservative is just a tag. Government will never get smaller. I heard that 30 years ago and it keeps on growing. Everyone has their own agenda. I’m not aware of what message you’re talking
    about. Several years ago Mayor Verbic and his three council supporters had the same type of an agenda. Hansen,Schmidt, and Yearman all joined Verbic. They did accomplish getting rid of Leo Nelson, as city manager. Now, three are dead, and their dreams went with them. Hansen sold his business and moved West. This is what I mean by no guarantee. Two years is a long time away, and many things can happen.

    We should be honoring the dead and injured in Boston instead of worrying about Elgin. I wish all of Boston good health and hope that the idoit(s)who did this needless tragedy are caught and face our justice system. There is no place in our society for these kind of people. Join me in saying a prayer for the whole city of Boston.

  32. Sally Foster says:

    In general terms, conservatism means not spending more than you have and knowing the difference between needs and wants.

    This council needs more taxes because they want to the degree of my bankrupcy. Well, I have had enough of that nonsense.

    I don’t care to look to the past except to learn lessons. I will proudly look to the future with this new council and hope my wishes for more belt tightening comes true. After all, I have been tightening my belt for many years.

    I hope you took note that your analogy about moving west and nothing is a guarantee are applied to Mr. Gilliam. After all, nothing stays the same.

    As far as Bosten is concerend, a few things. 1) good segway in changing the topic. 2) I have my own thoughts on this 3) of course pray for them but pray for the American people who are slowing being led to the slaughter with their dependance on government to make decisions and offer a weekly check.

    • bw says:

      In general terms, conservatism means not spending more than you have and knowing the difference between needs and wants.

      I thought it means you spend a quarter when you only have a dime. LOL

  33. Today on Left Right and You - 3-4pm Thursday on 1410am.

    In the 2nd half hour Carol Rauschenberger will be in the studio with us. During the 1st half, Jeff has this silly notion that conservative would rather complain than get out and vote. Anyone here want to call in and remind Jeff that Prigge, Shaw, and Gavin were all elected by fiscal conservatives? The call-in number is 847-931-1410.

  34. Cruex says:

    Be prepared, there will be a new mayor in 2015 even if Kaptain runs again. Unless he is unopposed, anyone who dresses appropriately and speaks English will beat him. If one considers the voters taste in leaders from April 9 Kaptain obviously represents positions Elgin people don’t like.

    So who on the council could or would challenge Kaptain in 2015? Steffen? No energy and barely speaks. Dunne? As the most unliked politician in Kane County, no way. Prigge? Maybe but why would he? Powell and Moeller? They couldn’t do the job even as co-mayors.

    Maybe Ed Schock will return? It would be his council since Gilliam will be gone and all but Prigge will line up behind him.

  35. Terry Gavin says:

    Fairly good points Cruex, except for the last one. “Maybe Ed Schock will return? It would be his council since Gilliam will be gone and all but Prigge will line up behind him.”

    Just a little history for you Cruex, I not only battled with both Gilliam & Schock for 4 years when I was previously on the council. I campaigned for Kaptain against Schock for Mayor 2 years ago and I also campaigned for Dunne 4 years ago but will never campaign for either again.

    In fact I would have opposed much of what Mayor Schock did over the 12 years he was mayor, so if he did return I certainly wouldn’t line up behind him.

  36. bw says:

    TG: Just a little history for you Cruex, I not only battled with both Gilliam & Schock for 4 years when I was previously on the council. I campaigned for Kaptain against Schock for Mayor 2 years ago and I also campaigned for Dunne 4 years ago but will never campaign for either again.

    What you’re saying is you will not back either Kaptain or Dunne in the business of the city again. Not a good start for a new member of the council. I want a member of the council with an open mind even if Kaptain and Dunne are the author. I doubt rather your vote will be the deciding vote on many issues no matter who is backing the it. We don’t need a guy on the council who is going to battle everyone and every needed issue.

  37. James Thiel says:

    bw, here’s a bit of history for you. Terry Gavin has more council experience than you are giving him credit for. He has equal or more council experience than all but two councilpersons on the current and the newly elected council. Carol is the newby!

    Its wrong to suggest that Terry would get behind any mayor that would be doing anything that would hurt the tax payers or not benefit Elgin. His past council history already informs us of that. I see no change in his second term than he showed in his first.

    Shock did not allow any diversity of thought or anyone who voted against him. Kaptain seems to run the same way.

    At least be accurate about reading Mr. Gavin’s post thoroughly before your brain jumps into action with misinterpreting what he said.
    Do you have no shame even when you are proven incorrect?

    • bw says:

      JT: I stand behind my post. Terry Gavin said he would not support Kaptain and Dunne again. Correct him not me. As one of his big supporters I can appreciate where you’re coming from. What he said was stupid.

      • Chuck Keysor says:

        Terry is right. I actively worked for Dunne four years ago, and for Kaptain two years ago, and would never support either one today.

        When someone is running without a record, it is much easier to support them, because it is very common for candidates to tell you what you want to hear. But when someone has an established record, then you can really tell. And if someone’s record shows that they did not live up to their promises made while campaigning, then it is up to each voter to keep track, and reject that candidate if they misrepresented themselves.

        If Terry found Dunne and Kaptain had not lived up to their promises or had misrepresented themselves, then he did the right thing in rejecting them. Chuck

        • bw says:

          CK: Not when you’re a new council member. It is getting off on the wrong foot. TG is suppose to represent us all not cherry pick who or what is in his best interest. As a conservative for over 40 years and a friend of the former Speaker of the House, I think TG will represent his own special interest, including the group you associate with. It is a shame the Elgin found out his agenda after the election. I look for him to be a weak council member. It is a sorry day for this city.

          • Terry Gavin says:

            Hey bw your insults and attacks on me are a real badge of honor. Your posts on here are also good for a few laughs.

            My original comments were made to Cruex and state that I wouldn’t campaign for Mr. Dunne or Mayor Kaptain again. There’s a difference between campaigning for someone and then working with them on a public body, it happens all the time. By your logic, or lack thereof, both Dunne and Kaptain are unable to work with me or others who just won election because they didn’t campaign for us.

            Over the last 2+ years I’ve been a frequent poster on here using my real name and anyone who’s read my posts or watched my campaign and my past record on the council knows exactly what I stand for. That message was clearly endorsed by the voters of Elgin who choose me second out of thirteen candidates by a healthy margin. Maybe you should identify yourself and then run for office since you seem to think you know everything.

            I like others on here will no longer debate with you since you seem incapable of reason or civility!

  38. Sally Foster says:

    Sally Foster says - Don’t debate with bw!

    Its not worth your time. Even when you try to teach by example, the message is immediately blocked and rejected. No opinion other then bw’s. No open debate or answered questions will ever come from bw or apparently the candidates bw backs.

    • bw says:


    • paul says:

      “I like others on here will no longer debate with you since you seem incapable of reason or civility!”

      BINGO. My analogy of arguing with people like bm is like arguing with a monkey - you can’t win because the monkey is incapable of understanding; and you look silly arguing with a monkey.

      But he is indeed unwittingly humorous.

  39. bw says:

    I took a quick look at the city of Elgin’s budget website and found it to be an interesting document. I need to spend more time going over the General Fund to see a better breakdown of the pie chart for revenue and expenditures as they are represented as a percentage of the whole on the pie chart. I had the opportunity to look over the GO Bonds active at the current time to do an analysis of the use of these funds. When I get the time I will go over the other funds listed on the websiite. In order to offer feedback it is necessary to understand the financial information within the total budget.

  40. bw says:

    TG: Spare me nails! Terry I don’t recall asking or inviting you to debate with me or do I find a need to hear anymore of your bullying remarks.
    Your responses on the Elginite candidate’s questionaire provides an insight of what kind of person your are. I think your boxing career has a lot to do with your attitude. Even though I’m 20 years your senior I will never let you bully me in any form. I feel sorry for the other council members who have to put up with you for the next four years.
    Your finishing 2nd in a 13 member election don’t impress me one bit. The total vote for the election was an embarrassment to say the least. I notice the other winners don’t post anything about an election with such a poor turnout. Don’t expect the other city council members to accept your lack of respect at council meetings.
    I don’t need or expect a reply to this post. I will keep a close eye on your council activities.