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	<title>Comments on: SB2288: Mike Noland&#8217;s 67% tax hike</title>
	<atom:link href="http://elginite.org/blog/2008/10/28/sb2288-mike-nolands-67-tax-hike/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://elginite.org/blog/2008/10/28/sb2288-mike-nolands-67-tax-hike/</link>
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	<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2012 12:40:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Dannyblake</title>
		<link>http://elginite.org/blog/2008/10/28/sb2288-mike-nolands-67-tax-hike/#comment-45531</link>
		<dc:creator>Dannyblake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 10:37:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elginite.org/blog/2008/10/28/sb2288-mike-nolands-67-tax-hike/#comment-45531</guid>
		<description>HTF can a candidate "sign on" to a bill?  The idea of property tax relief through this method is absurd--Ralph M. is so confused...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HTF can a candidate &#8220;sign on&#8221; to a bill?  The idea of property tax relief through this method is absurd&#8211;Ralph M. is so confused&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: RealityCheck</title>
		<link>http://elginite.org/blog/2008/10/28/sb2288-mike-nolands-67-tax-hike/#comment-45257</link>
		<dc:creator>RealityCheck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 20:38:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elginite.org/blog/2008/10/28/sb2288-mike-nolands-67-tax-hike/#comment-45257</guid>
		<description>Let's see...where do I begin.   

While Mr. Martire presented a very cohesive presentation, I would hardly characterize it as unbiased.  As an old cliche says about statistics, you can bascially make them say whatever you need them too.  At times national stats were used, then local stats, then correlation charts based on narrow parameters all in the name of making a particular point at a particular time.  

To Speakingthetruth, unless you have some sort of superhuman understanding, SB2288 and HB750 are so packed full of legislative loopholes you could drive a truck through them.  The State is robbing from their current funds.

To Mr. Dalton, 2/3 is a 67% increase, and while the abatement of roughly 20% might be given to certain areas for property tax relief, Mr. Martire stated himself that there are no guarantees that new legislation could not eliminate the abatement in the future, thus leaving us with the 67% increase in personal income tax without any property tax relief at all.  I don't know about you, but I don't think our illustrious state government has shown even a hint of restraint when it comes to taking more money out of us.  

I don't know if you're aware of this, but our economy is already in recession and is headed for a deeper one, therefore those "revenues" the State is chomping at the bit to take out of us are going to cause an even greater burden on those of us who pay taxes.  By the way, have you given any consideration to the renters in this state that would be hit with the full 67% without an abatement of any sort?  

If you would like a solution, I have one.  Our government should REDUCE THEIR SPENDING in other areas so they can properly meet their infrastructure obligations and fund the schools appropriately.  Living within their means...what a novel idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s see&#8230;where do I begin.   </p>
<p>While Mr. Martire presented a very cohesive presentation, I would hardly characterize it as unbiased.  As an old cliche says about statistics, you can bascially make them say whatever you need them too.  At times national stats were used, then local stats, then correlation charts based on narrow parameters all in the name of making a particular point at a particular time.  </p>
<p>To Speakingthetruth, unless you have some sort of superhuman understanding, SB2288 and HB750 are so packed full of legislative loopholes you could drive a truck through them.  The State is robbing from their current funds.</p>
<p>To Mr. Dalton, 2/3 is a 67% increase, and while the abatement of roughly 20% might be given to certain areas for property tax relief, Mr. Martire stated himself that there are no guarantees that new legislation could not eliminate the abatement in the future, thus leaving us with the 67% increase in personal income tax without any property tax relief at all.  I don&#8217;t know about you, but I don&#8217;t think our illustrious state government has shown even a hint of restraint when it comes to taking more money out of us.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;re aware of this, but our economy is already in recession and is headed for a deeper one, therefore those &#8220;revenues&#8221; the State is chomping at the bit to take out of us are going to cause an even greater burden on those of us who pay taxes.  By the way, have you given any consideration to the renters in this state that would be hit with the full 67% without an abatement of any sort?  </p>
<p>If you would like a solution, I have one.  Our government should REDUCE THEIR SPENDING in other areas so they can properly meet their infrastructure obligations and fund the schools appropriately.  Living within their means&#8230;what a novel idea.</p>
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		<title>By: Jessica</title>
		<link>http://elginite.org/blog/2008/10/28/sb2288-mike-nolands-67-tax-hike/#comment-45256</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 05:10:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elginite.org/blog/2008/10/28/sb2288-mike-nolands-67-tax-hike/#comment-45256</guid>
		<description>I wish I had gone to that.  I tried to scan through the bill but I couldn't get too much out of it.  For example, whose income tax would be raised and under what sort of levels would receive tax credits.

A way to reform education is to throw it all in one pot.  You live in Illinois and are in grade x?  You have y dollars spent on you, whether that's in Chicago or Lake Forest or Peoria.  The monies will be divided by district based on the number of students in the district.  The districts will have to remain accountable disperse money based on the number of students at each school.  No more differences in class size based on how much money your parents make.

It'd help many municipalities, such as ours.  No more having people not wanting to live in a certain place because they're scared of the school district.  It could be the start of the end of a vicious cycle that hurts cities and towns.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish I had gone to that.  I tried to scan through the bill but I couldn&#8217;t get too much out of it.  For example, whose income tax would be raised and under what sort of levels would receive tax credits.</p>
<p>A way to reform education is to throw it all in one pot.  You live in Illinois and are in grade x?  You have y dollars spent on you, whether that&#8217;s in Chicago or Lake Forest or Peoria.  The monies will be divided by district based on the number of students in the district.  The districts will have to remain accountable disperse money based on the number of students at each school.  No more differences in class size based on how much money your parents make.</p>
<p>It&#8217;d help many municipalities, such as ours.  No more having people not wanting to live in a certain place because they&#8217;re scared of the school district.  It could be the start of the end of a vicious cycle that hurts cities and towns.</p>
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		<title>By: John G. Dalton</title>
		<link>http://elginite.org/blog/2008/10/28/sb2288-mike-nolands-67-tax-hike/#comment-45251</link>
		<dc:creator>John G. Dalton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 17:23:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elginite.org/blog/2008/10/28/sb2288-mike-nolands-67-tax-hike/#comment-45251</guid>
		<description>People from both parties have been asking the legislature to address the inequities of our over reliance on regressive property taxes to fund our schools for most of my adult life. Here we have a legislator brave enough to try to address this growing problem (with far reaching consequences), and all some folks can do is belly ache. The bill may not be perfect, but it's a step in the right direction. Senator Noland should be commended for taking a stand and trying to get something constructive done for the taxpayers, many of whom are retired on fixed incomes and having trouble paying escalating property tax bills. It takes guts to call for a income tax increase to pay for the property tax reductions, and it takes guts to hold open forums like this to solicit feedback from the voters and the community. Such forums can allow the bill to be tweaked to improve it, and can be used to dispel inaccurate information about the bill, such as that found in this very forum. For example, it is misleading to describe it as a "67% tax hike" without adjusting that figure to account for the reduction in property taxes. The net increase or decrease in the overall tax burden is the relevant figure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People from both parties have been asking the legislature to address the inequities of our over reliance on regressive property taxes to fund our schools for most of my adult life. Here we have a legislator brave enough to try to address this growing problem (with far reaching consequences), and all some folks can do is belly ache. The bill may not be perfect, but it&#8217;s a step in the right direction. Senator Noland should be commended for taking a stand and trying to get something constructive done for the taxpayers, many of whom are retired on fixed incomes and having trouble paying escalating property tax bills. It takes guts to call for a income tax increase to pay for the property tax reductions, and it takes guts to hold open forums like this to solicit feedback from the voters and the community. Such forums can allow the bill to be tweaked to improve it, and can be used to dispel inaccurate information about the bill, such as that found in this very forum. For example, it is misleading to describe it as a &#8220;67% tax hike&#8221; without adjusting that figure to account for the reduction in property taxes. The net increase or decrease in the overall tax burden is the relevant figure.</p>
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		<title>By: SpeakingTheTruthElgin</title>
		<link>http://elginite.org/blog/2008/10/28/sb2288-mike-nolands-67-tax-hike/#comment-45247</link>
		<dc:creator>SpeakingTheTruthElgin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 15:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elginite.org/blog/2008/10/28/sb2288-mike-nolands-67-tax-hike/#comment-45247</guid>
		<description>I was at Senator Noland's forum last night.  I did not see you there.  About 50 other people were in attendance.  Senator Noland did an exemplary job talking to his constituents about wanting to know their opinions on property tax reform and education funding reform.  The nonpartisan Center for Tax and Budget Accountability's executive director, Ralph Martire, also did an excellent job in explaining SB750 and SB2288.  His presentation clarified ALL of the stated misinformation you have been writing about concerning this issue.  Mayor Ed Schock was also a participant and explained why SB2288 and SB750 are good for this community and our school district.  Kudos to Senator Noland for hosting such an important forum for his constituents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was at Senator Noland&#8217;s forum last night.  I did not see you there.  About 50 other people were in attendance.  Senator Noland did an exemplary job talking to his constituents about wanting to know their opinions on property tax reform and education funding reform.  The nonpartisan Center for Tax and Budget Accountability&#8217;s executive director, Ralph Martire, also did an excellent job in explaining SB750 and SB2288.  His presentation clarified ALL of the stated misinformation you have been writing about concerning this issue.  Mayor Ed Schock was also a participant and explained why SB2288 and SB750 are good for this community and our school district.  Kudos to Senator Noland for hosting such an important forum for his constituents.</p>
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		<title>By: RS</title>
		<link>http://elginite.org/blog/2008/10/28/sb2288-mike-nolands-67-tax-hike/#comment-45245</link>
		<dc:creator>RS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 10:13:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elginite.org/blog/2008/10/28/sb2288-mike-nolands-67-tax-hike/#comment-45245</guid>
		<description>Kiki, I will keep in mind what you said, and I urge you to keep in mind that my assumptions are just verbalized assumptions that people make when they hear the same things that I hear. I may just be verbalizing what people are thinking.

John, Thanks for backing me up :)

TDM, I respectfully disagree :) You can also argue that an 80% tax on someone earning a million dollars is easier to bear than a 5% tax on $40,000.

As for school districts, I think that should remain a local issue. That's the beauty of the American system. We distribute power and responsibility, and push things down to the lowest possible level so that people at the grassroots have a say. 

Chicago is the 4th richest city in the world on a per capita basis, and they can't fund their own school district? If Chicago's school district needs money, let them raise taxes from their own district not the rest of the state.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kiki, I will keep in mind what you said, and I urge you to keep in mind that my assumptions are just verbalized assumptions that people make when they hear the same things that I hear. I may just be verbalizing what people are thinking.</p>
<p>John, Thanks for backing me up :)</p>
<p>TDM, I respectfully disagree :) You can also argue that an 80% tax on someone earning a million dollars is easier to bear than a 5% tax on $40,000.</p>
<p>As for school districts, I think that should remain a local issue. That&#8217;s the beauty of the American system. We distribute power and responsibility, and push things down to the lowest possible level so that people at the grassroots have a say. </p>
<p>Chicago is the 4th richest city in the world on a per capita basis, and they can&#8217;t fund their own school district? If Chicago&#8217;s school district needs money, let them raise taxes from their own district not the rest of the state.</p>
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		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://elginite.org/blog/2008/10/28/sb2288-mike-nolands-67-tax-hike/#comment-45242</link>
		<dc:creator>john</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 23:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elginite.org/blog/2008/10/28/sb2288-mike-nolands-67-tax-hike/#comment-45242</guid>
		<description>I would have made the same assumption as Elginite if they said what he said they said at the forum. I have no reason to doubt Elginite but it would be good to see a video or hear another confirmation. 

If politicians go around saying they want to reduce the burden of property taxes, it means they're going to raise taxes somewhere else. How many taxes do you have? If it's not income taxes, it's going to be sales taxes or something else. But most likely it's going to be income taxes.

It's like if a few weeks ago, a politician was asked if they would support a federal bailout. Even if the bill isn't mentioned, you can assume that if they say they support a federal bailout, they're talking about the bill that's on the table.

If Schmitz and Munson are not supporting SB2288, but are still calling for "school funding reform" I want to know what they're talking about. Are they going to build casinos? Do more lotteries? Where is this money going to come from?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would have made the same assumption as Elginite if they said what he said they said at the forum. I have no reason to doubt Elginite but it would be good to see a video or hear another confirmation. </p>
<p>If politicians go around saying they want to reduce the burden of property taxes, it means they&#8217;re going to raise taxes somewhere else. How many taxes do you have? If it&#8217;s not income taxes, it&#8217;s going to be sales taxes or something else. But most likely it&#8217;s going to be income taxes.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s like if a few weeks ago, a politician was asked if they would support a federal bailout. Even if the bill isn&#8217;t mentioned, you can assume that if they say they support a federal bailout, they&#8217;re talking about the bill that&#8217;s on the table.</p>
<p>If Schmitz and Munson are not supporting SB2288, but are still calling for &#8220;school funding reform&#8221; I want to know what they&#8217;re talking about. Are they going to build casinos? Do more lotteries? Where is this money going to come from?</p>
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		<title>By: TDM</title>
		<link>http://elginite.org/blog/2008/10/28/sb2288-mike-nolands-67-tax-hike/#comment-45241</link>
		<dc:creator>TDM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 21:30:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elginite.org/blog/2008/10/28/sb2288-mike-nolands-67-tax-hike/#comment-45241</guid>
		<description>I oppose SB2288.  It isn't balanced and it increases spending on non-education related pork.  

The concept of a straight and equal substitution of higher income taxes offset by lower property taxes is a good one in my opinion.  It would help reduce the inequity between poor school districts and wealthy ones.  

I think most Illinois residents agree; it is a politically popular idea.  The problem is that Bills like SB2288 aren't straight &amp; equal.  Too many Illinois legislators are corrupt, wanting to increase spending for their lobbyists.

I won't cry over the loss of our "Flat Tax" system in Illinois, should that ever happen.  The burden of a 5% tax on a $40,000 family income is a lot harder to bear than a 5% tax on a $400,000 family income.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I oppose SB2288.  It isn&#8217;t balanced and it increases spending on non-education related pork.  </p>
<p>The concept of a straight and equal substitution of higher income taxes offset by lower property taxes is a good one in my opinion.  It would help reduce the inequity between poor school districts and wealthy ones.  </p>
<p>I think most Illinois residents agree; it is a politically popular idea.  The problem is that Bills like SB2288 aren&#8217;t straight &amp; equal.  Too many Illinois legislators are corrupt, wanting to increase spending for their lobbyists.</p>
<p>I won&#8217;t cry over the loss of our &#8220;Flat Tax&#8221; system in Illinois, should that ever happen.  The burden of a 5% tax on a $40,000 family income is a lot harder to bear than a 5% tax on a $400,000 family income.</p>
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		<title>By: Kiki</title>
		<link>http://elginite.org/blog/2008/10/28/sb2288-mike-nolands-67-tax-hike/#comment-45240</link>
		<dc:creator>Kiki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 14:18:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elginite.org/blog/2008/10/28/sb2288-mike-nolands-67-tax-hike/#comment-45240</guid>
		<description>Regarding your correction...that's all well and good, but you still state that you made "the assumption they supported funding education through income taxes."  

I don't know about you, but I was raised to believe that when you "assume" something, it makes an a@# out of you and me...next time, I would suggest verifying support or opposition of something by an elected official or someone running for office BEFORE you write it.  I would stay away from words like "assume" or "assumption"..just a thought...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding your correction&#8230;that&#8217;s all well and good, but you still state that you made &#8220;the assumption they supported funding education through income taxes.&#8221;  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know about you, but I was raised to believe that when you &#8220;assume&#8221; something, it makes an a@# out of you and me&#8230;next time, I would suggest verifying support or opposition of something by an elected official or someone running for office BEFORE you write it.  I would stay away from words like &#8220;assume&#8221; or &#8220;assumption&#8221;..just a thought&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: rm</title>
		<link>http://elginite.org/blog/2008/10/28/sb2288-mike-nolands-67-tax-hike/#comment-45239</link>
		<dc:creator>rm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 04:01:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elginite.org/blog/2008/10/28/sb2288-mike-nolands-67-tax-hike/#comment-45239</guid>
		<description>and it's a testament to Elgin's changing demographic that we now have it on our own doorsteps. (hit the wrong button while typing previous post... people like Farnham make me so angry!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and it&#8217;s a testament to Elgin&#8217;s changing demographic that we now have it on our own doorsteps. (hit the wrong button while typing previous post&#8230; people like Farnham make me so angry!)</p>
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